Discussion:
Merry frigging christmas. I HATE CPS
(too old to reply)
frustratedstepmother
2006-12-23 14:14:54 UTC
Permalink
I found this group thru fightcps.com

I am beyond mad today. I just sent this to The Seattle PI (the Seattle
newspaper) I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THEM!!!!!

I am the step mother of a child currently in the foster care system, he
has been in foster care for 2 1/2 years. We are getting him back as
soon as Jan 12th. We were supposed to have him for the whole weekend
until Tuesday morning and my husband went to call CPS this afternoon to
find out where we were picking him up. Guess what? The program was
"changed" as the supervisor Fred Fistner put it, so he can be with his
"family" for Christmas. The foster mother is really not a nice person
to me. She has caused nothing but problems. There has been no so-called
reuinification, we have had one caseworker taken from this "high
profile case" (there words not mine) I am so mad right now I can hardly
believe this. I am tired of this corrupt system and someone needs to
expose their underhandedness. We are getting another attorney when this
is all over and am sueing them up one side and down the other.
Michael
2006-12-23 14:20:25 UTC
Permalink
On Saturday 23 December 2006 09:14 am, frustratedstepmother wrote in
Post by frustratedstepmother
I found this group thru fightcps.com
I am beyond mad today. I just sent this to The Seattle PI (the Seattle
newspaper) I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THEM!!!!!
I am the step mother of a child currently in the foster care system, he
has been in foster care for 2 1/2 years. We are getting him back as
soon as Jan 12th. We were supposed to have him for the whole weekend
until Tuesday morning and my husband went to call CPS this afternoon to
find out where we were picking him up. Guess what? The program was
"changed" as the supervisor Fred Fistner put it, so he can be with his
"family" for Christmas. The foster mother is really not a nice person
to me. She has caused nothing but problems. There has been no so-called
reuinification, we have had one caseworker taken from this "high
profile case" (there words not mine) I am so mad right now I can hardly
believe this. I am tired of this corrupt system and someone needs to
expose their underhandedness. We are getting another attorney when this
is all over and am sueing them up one side and down the other.
Best of luck to you in getting your step-son back soon.

I sincerely hope you win in a lawsuit against CPS and cause them to think
thrice before damaging another family without just cause.

- --
Michael
0:->
2006-12-23 15:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Dear frustratedstepmother be very careful about advice and 'best
wishes' from this creep. He'd have you going in BEFORE the child is
returned and creating conditions that could keep the child in the
system for two MORE years or so.

He and his cronies here, losers ALL, who have either never had child
in CPS custody, or have managed to keep the child away from their
parent for 6 years or so, will try to "harvest" you to try things as
their "lab rat" while risking the child.

WAIT!

Work out what's going on with CPS.

I've seen them actually test the patience of people with such tactics
to see if you blow up, just as you are wanting to do (perfectly
natural) then use that blow up as evidence of your lack of suitableness
to parent the child.

Be calm. (Scream at me, if you wish, but NOT at the worker or anyone
else that has any stake in the case...and don't even trust your
neighbors at this point).

In your contacts with CPS, stay calm, professional, assertive but not
agressive. Show that you can handle yourself. Quietly keep good records
of everything that transpires. Simple, factual, not loaded with your
emotions, no speculation as to motives of others, just the facts.

You might one day need to produce them in court, and if you hack the
bad stuff out of your notes, the judge will know it and pitch your
evidence. Keep good notes, but "messy" so they are obviously genuine
and done on the spot over time.

When the child is returned, and you are NOT being supervised any longer
by CPS, then Michael's wishes for you are appropriate.

Notice he did NOT advise caution? That's been his tune since he first
came to this group about two years ago or so.

Why he keeps telling people to throw their children into the maw of CPS
is beyond me, unless he's actually part of the system here to provoke.

One you are all clear of the system and your husband has full custody
of the child and the child is not longer in any way a ward of the
state, kick butt if you wish.

And I too hope you win a big settlement...though so far you haven't
mentioned anything that I see a reasonable cause to sue and expect to
win.

Some folks here are proven successful tacticians in CPS cases and
repeatedly win against them.

Michael's not one of those, and neither is Greg, who will come for you
next, slinking in with unctuous encouragement to risk the child and be
a "heroic crusader" like himself, who has done nothing to get his girl
friends child back to her in nearly six years.

Well, he's babbled here and tried to pick up folks such as yourself to
join his cause.

Best wishes to you. Feel free to rant at ME, not CPS, at this time.

Kane
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On Saturday 23 December 2006 09:14 am, frustratedstepmother wrote in
Post by frustratedstepmother
I found this group thru fightcps.com
I am beyond mad today. I just sent this to The Seattle PI (the Seattle
newspaper) I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THEM!!!!!
I am the step mother of a child currently in the foster care system, he
has been in foster care for 2 1/2 years. We are getting him back as
soon as Jan 12th. We were supposed to have him for the whole weekend
until Tuesday morning and my husband went to call CPS this afternoon to
find out where we were picking him up. Guess what? The program was
"changed" as the supervisor Fred Fistner put it, so he can be with his
"family" for Christmas. The foster mother is really not a nice person
to me. She has caused nothing but problems. There has been no so-called
reuinification, we have had one caseworker taken from this "high
profile case" (there words not mine) I am so mad right now I can hardly
believe this. I am tired of this corrupt system and someone needs to
expose their underhandedness. We are getting another attorney when this
is all over and am sueing them up one side and down the other.
Best of luck to you in getting your step-son back soon.
I sincerely hope you win in a lawsuit against CPS and cause them to think
thrice before damaging another family without just cause.
- --
Michael
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Greegor
2006-12-24 22:09:27 UTC
Permalink
Kane (Donald L. Fisher of Bend Oregon, former operator of Oregon
Post by 0:->
I've seen them actually test the patience of people with such tactics
to see if you blow up, just as you are wanting to do (perfectly
natural) then use that blow up as evidence of your lack of suitableness
to parent the child.
In other words, even though the agency people prove to you that they
are
completely and utterly CROOKED, depend on their honesty. (sic)

It's like when they are completely unreasonable you
should try to REASON with them. (sic)

If you came here to let the system sucks know what you think of them,
fine.

If you want advice, go back to FightCPS.
The system sucks run this newsgroup too much for now.

Not that there aren't system sucks spying on you in FightCPS,
but it's a bit less public.

V: People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.

Sutler: I want this country to realize that we stand on the
edge of oblivion. I want everyone to remember *why* they need us!
0:->
2006-12-24 23:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greegor
Kane (Donald L. Fisher of Bend Oregon, former operator of Oregon
No he didn't Don Fisher in bend never heard of you, me, or CPS other
than as just some state agency he wishes would end the damn child abuse
out there. Well, if he's a normal person, which I suspect he is.

Tell you what. If I'm Don Fisher of Bend Oregon I absolutely promise
you that if you call me in Bend Oregon I will just say hello Greg, how
are you, nice to hear from you.

Or, if I'm not, you could be in a world of hurt. Make the first thing
you say, of course, your accusation that he is a former operator of an
adoption website and that he's a retired caseworker from Oregon CPS.

Go ahead, Greg. See what you get.

Tell me the cost of your call and I'll reimburse you. And I'm not
joking. Do it, stupid.

I've said publicly you can call me in Bend. If that is me you are off
the hook. I can't charge you with harassment or anything. But Don
Fisher in Bend might not be so generous.

Are you game? I can hardly wait, little CPS AGENT PROVOCATEUR.
Post by Greegor
Post by 0:->
I've seen them actually test the patience of people with such tactics
to see if you blow up, just as you are wanting to do (perfectly
natural) then use that blow up as evidence of your lack of suitableness
to parent the child.
In other words, even though the agency people prove to you that they
are completely and utterly CROOKED, depend on their honesty. (sic)
Greg, you are dishonest every day of your life posting here, and you
have lived a lie for five years coming up on six.

Putting people to a test to see if they are fully committed and can
handle the issues that come with children removed from parents is
"utterly CROOKED?" They want to see how you handle frustration...and
what you do with your anger.

CPS has an obligation to place children in a safer invironment than the
one they are taken from. If they fail to do that you are among the
first to come a ranting along about it.

How are they to determine how safe the environment is, guess, Greg?

You aren't party to this case. You do not know the circumstances. I
have advised the lady to stay calm and focused. You appear to want her
to blow up and scream at them.

That appears consistent with your past performance as a PROVOCATEUR,
Greg.

And when did I ever say there are no crooked caseworkers, Greg?
Post by Greegor
It's like when they are completely unreasonable you
should try to REASON with them. (sic)
(sic) [sic] ( you misused the mark ) is for typos or inaccuracies by
those you are quoting.

Why are you using it?

Did you misquote or misspell or post some inaccuracy in that statement?

It's not meant to be used to indicate ironic or other disagreement. How
stupid are you?

As to your claim....YES, you stupid GIT. If they are unreasonable and
you are reasonable you got'm. In court, in meeting rooms. At your home
if they are their for some reason. If YOU are reasonable you have their
ass in a basket and can do what you want with it.

In fact if you can be so sweetly reasonable as to make THEM BLOW OUT,
you have even more control over them. But if you attack, you are
simply one of them.

Between the two of you the judge will chose them everytime if you don't
have evidence to carry the day...and you don't, Greg.
Post by Greegor
If you came here to let the system sucks know what you think of them,
fine.
Irrelevant and off topic. That's not why I'm here. But now that you
mention it, how long have been suckin' on the tit of CPS or your
contract agent to be a PROVOCATEUR in this newsgroup?.
Post by Greegor
If you want advice, go back to FightCPS.
Though I've given Linda little shit in the past, I've pretty much
supported FightCPS as at least a place for people that need the support
of others and from time to time bits and pieces of useful information.

I am losing my faith in it in any meaningful way. It's appears to be
turning into a rest home for babbling nuts all sharing the same insane
nonsense.

You can tell by their reaction to challenge of their nuttier posters.
Post by Greegor
The system sucks run this newsgroup too much for now.
You and your cronies are doomed here, Greg. It's all too obvious that
if you aren't AGENTS of CPS you might as well be.

Imagine, a long consistent string of attacks on parents here for help,
or having won here to share their stories for others to learn from. All
this by losers or socks. All this hatred and bile directed as PARENTS.

What's it for, Greg?

I can figure out why you go after me, and lie, but why would you attack
someone like Betty, or Jennifer, or firemonkey, or lostintranslation, a
caring and committed foster mother like Sherman.

All these people and more have contributed to the need people have that
come here.

All those named have CRITICIZED CSP themselves, some very harshly
indeed, yet you ignore that. And you STILL attack them.

Even Dan has criticized CPS, claiming that he's found only fools for
workers there.

You ignore that and pretend he's a system suck.

Something's up here, Greg, and I'm going to find out what it is.

Better confess now that you are the payroll of the state, or of a
contractor sent here to spy on these folks and do all you can to
disrupt the success they have found here.

By the way ...

Who the hell are you talking to?

I'm the only person other than you in this post. I've removed nothing.
Are you having hallucinations again? And think your imaginary friends
are actually listening to you?
Post by Greegor
Not that there aren't system sucks spying on you in FightCPS,
but it's a bit less public.
The worst system sucks you could imagine, Greg, and whoever Greg is
addressing, is Greg himself and his buddies.

He has, along with other, consistently attacked people coming here for
help. Just as he's working up to do to you because you didn't
immediately reject advice from my self or others not in his circle of
weirdos.

You are marked. His hate will boil over in the next few posts. Watch
him.

We are the ones that won against CPS, consistently. Even Sherman, the
foster mom, has fought CPS and won for the disabled child she cares for
and loves.

He attacks us all.

Winners.

And he attacks.

What is THAT about?

He lies constantly about Dan being a system suck, but if you actually
read Dan's post you find that he is constant foe of CPS, in many
states, and has helped dozens of families bring their children home and
overturn allegations of abuse and neglect.

Why would Greg attack him?

Why did Greg, turn down his help ... freely offered (Dan has never made
a dime from helping people win against CPS...look up his posting
history for why....he was a victim of CPS himself at one time. Well,
the attempted to make him a victim....R R R R ...not going to happen).
Post by Greegor
V: People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
"V:" Who is "V:?"

Why should anyone be afraid of anyone? Why shouldn't everyone be
cautious? Certainly there are bad people out there, just as their is
bad government in some places.

These platitude slogans can be very misleading, and the product of
propagandists that have something to sell you.
Post by Greegor
Sutler: I want this country to realize that we stand on the
edge of oblivion. I want everyone to remember *why* they need us!
Vague and unrelated quotes of people not in this environment.

And without quote marks. Weirdness, Greg, just weirdness.

The signs of a cover story starting to unravel.

If CPS isn't paying you, they damn well should be. Not much, of course,
because you are so lame even a brand new visitor can read you in a
flash, and escape your bloody paws.

R R R RR RR R R R R R R R R....

Man you are stupid.
spd
2006-12-25 00:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by 0:->
Post by Greegor
Kane (Donald L. Fisher of Bend Oregon, former operator of Oregon
adoption web site) wroteNo he didn't Don Fisher in bend never heard of you, me, or CPS other
than as just some state agency he wishes would end the damn child abuse
out there. Well, if he's a normal person, which I suspect he is.
Tell you what. If I'm Don Fisher of Bend Oregon I absolutely promise
you that if you call me in Bend Oregon I will just say hello Greg, how
are you, nice to hear from you.
Or, if I'm not, you could be in a world of hurt. Make the first thing
you say, of course, your accusation that he is a former operator of an
adoption website and that he's a retired caseworker from Oregon CPS.
Go ahead, Greg. See what you get.
Tell me the cost of your call and I'll reimburse you. And I'm not
joking. Do it, stupid.
I've said publicly you can call me in Bend. If that is me you are off
the hook. I can't charge you with harassment or anything. But Don
Fisher in Bend might not be so generous.
Are you game? I can hardly wait, little CPS AGENT PROVOCATEUR.
Post by Greegor
Post by 0:->
I've seen them actually test the patience of people with such tactics
to see if you blow up, just as you are wanting to do (perfectly
natural) then use that blow up as evidence of your lack of suitableness
to parent the child.
In other words, even though the agency people prove to you that they
are completely and utterly CROOKED, depend on their honesty. (sic)Greg, you are dishonest every day of your life posting here, and you
have lived a lie for five years coming up on six.
Putting people to a test to see if they are fully committed and can
handle the issues that come with children removed from parents is
"utterly CROOKED?" They want to see how you handle frustration...and
what you do with your anger.
CPS has an obligation to place children in a safer invironment than the
one they are taken from. If they fail to do that you are among the
first to come a ranting along about it.
How are they to determine how safe the environment is, guess, Greg?
You aren't party to this case. You do not know the circumstances. I
have advised the lady to stay calm and focused. You appear to want her
to blow up and scream at them.
That appears consistent with your past performance as a PROVOCATEUR,
Greg.
And when did I ever say there are no crooked caseworkers, Greg?
Post by Greegor
It's like when they are completely unreasonable you
should try to REASON with them. (sic)(sic) [sic] ( you misused the mark ) is for typos or inaccuracies by
those you are quoting.
Why are you using it?
Did you misquote or misspell or post some inaccuracy in that statement?
It's not meant to be used to indicate ironic or other disagreement. How
stupid are you?
As to your claim....YES, you stupid GIT. If they are unreasonable and
you are reasonable you got'm. In court, in meeting rooms. At your home
if they are their for some reason. If YOU are reasonable you have their
ass in a basket and can do what you want with it.
In fact if you can be so sweetly reasonable as to make THEM BLOW OUT,
you have even more control over them. But if you attack, you are
simply one of them.
Between the two of you the judge will chose them everytime if you don't
have evidence to carry the day...and you don't, Greg.
Post by Greegor
If you came here to let the system sucks know what you think of them,
fine.Irrelevant and off topic. That's not why I'm here. But now that you
mention it, how long have been suckin' on the tit of CPS or your
contract agent to be a PROVOCATEUR in this newsgroup?.
Post by Greegor
If you want advice, go back to FightCPS.Though I've given Linda little shit in the past, I've pretty much
supported FightCPS as at least a place for people that need the support
of others and from time to time bits and pieces of useful information.
I am losing my faith in it in any meaningful way. It's appears to be
turning into a rest home for babbling nuts all sharing the same insane
nonsense.
You can tell by their reaction to challenge of their nuttier posters.
Post by Greegor
The system sucks run this newsgroup too much for now.You and your cronies are doomed here, Greg. It's all too obvious that
if you aren't AGENTS of CPS you might as well be.
Imagine, a long consistent string of attacks on parents here for help,
or having won here to share their stories for others to learn from. All
this by losers or socks. All this hatred and bile directed as PARENTS.
What's it for, Greg?
I can figure out why you go after me, and lie, but why would you attack
someone like Betty, or Jennifer, or firemonkey, or lostintranslation, a
caring and committed foster mother like Sherman.
All these people and more have contributed to the need people have that
come here.
All those named have CRITICIZED CSP themselves, some very harshly
indeed, yet you ignore that. And you STILL attack them.
Even Dan has criticized CPS, claiming that he's found only fools for
workers there.
You ignore that and pretend he's a system suck.
Something's up here, Greg, and I'm going to find out what it is.
Better confess now that you are the payroll of the state, or of a
contractor sent here to spy on these folks and do all you can to
disrupt the success they have found here.
By the way ...
Who the hell are you talking to?
I'm the only person other than you in this post. I've removed nothing.
Are you having hallucinations again? And think your imaginary friends
are actually listening to you?
Post by Greegor
Not that there aren't system sucks spying on you in FightCPS,
but it's a bit less public.The worst system sucks you could imagine, Greg, and whoever Greg is
addressing, is Greg himself and his buddies.
He has, along with other, consistently attacked people coming here for
help. Just as he's working up to do to you because you didn't
immediately reject advice from my self or others not in his circle of
weirdos.
You are marked. His hate will boil over in the next few posts. Watch
him.
We are the ones that won against CPS, consistently. Even Sherman, the
foster mom, has fought CPS and won for the disabled child she cares for
and loves.
He attacks us all.
Winners.
And he attacks.
What is THAT about?
He lies constantly about Dan being a system suck, but if you actually
read Dan's post you find that he is constant foe of CPS, in many
states, and has helped dozens of families bring their children home and
overturn allegations of abuse and neglect.
Why would Greg attack him?
Why did Greg, turn down his help ... freely offered (Dan has never made
a dime from helping people win against CPS...look up his posting
history for why....he was a victim of CPS himself at one time. Well,
the attempted to make him a victim....R R R R ...not going to happen).
Post by Greegor
V: People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people."V:" Who is "V:?"
Why should anyone be afraid of anyone? Why shouldn't everyone be
cautious? Certainly there are bad people out there, just as their is
bad government in some places.
These platitude slogans can be very misleading, and the product of
propagandists that have something to sell you.
Post by Greegor
Sutler: I want this country to realize that we stand on the
edge of oblivion. I want everyone to remember *why* they need us!Vague and unrelated quotes of people not in this environment.
And without quote marks. Weirdness, Greg, just weirdness.
The signs of a cover story starting to unravel.
If CPS isn't paying you, they damn well should be. Not much, of course,
because you are so lame even a brand new visitor can read you in a
flash, and escape your bloody paws.
R R R RR RR R R R R R R R R....
Man you are stupid.
Greg,

Is Lisa jr visiting for Christmas ?


spd
Michael
2006-12-28 20:08:03 UTC
Permalink
On Saturday 23 December 2006 10:04 am
Post by 0:->
Dear frustratedstepmother be very careful about advice and 'best
wishes' from this creep. He'd have you going in BEFORE the child is
returned and creating conditions that could keep the child in the
system for two MORE years or so.
What advice was that which I gave?
Post by 0:->
He and his cronies here, losers ALL, who have either never had child
in CPS custody, or have managed to keep the child away from their
parent for 6 years or so, will try to "harvest" you to try things as
their "lab rat" while risking the child.
WAIT!
Wait for WHAT?

She isn't doing anything except venting and sending a letter to a newspaper.
Post by 0:->
Work out what's going on with CPS.
You mean do whatever they want, don't resist or object even if what they
want done is completely WRONG?
Post by 0:->
I've seen them actually test the patience of people with such tactics
to see if you blow up, just as you are wanting to do (perfectly
natural) then use that blow up as evidence of your lack of suitableness
to parent the child.
By your very nature here, I bet you did a fine job of doing the same thing
to parents you were involved with before you retired from child welfare
work for the State, Don Fisher.
Post by 0:->
Be calm. (Scream at me, if you wish, but NOT at the worker or anyone
else that has any stake in the case...and don't even trust your
neighbors at this point).
IOW, don't rock the boat, something you deny meaning in your posts.

Don't even trust your neighbors, but trust a retired child welfare worker
for the State, and an anonymous internet poster?
Post by 0:->
In your contacts with CPS, stay calm, professional, assertive but not
agressive. Show that you can handle yourself. Quietly keep good records
of everything that transpires. Simple, factual, not loaded with your
emotions, no speculation as to motives of others, just the facts.
IOW, don't rock the boat, play their game and act like you have no spine so
they can keep moving to TPR because it's obvious you don't want this child
or you would at least fight harder.
Post by 0:->
You might one day need to produce them in court, and if you hack the
bad stuff out of your notes, the judge will know it and pitch your
evidence. Keep good notes, but "messy" so they are obviously genuine
and done on the spot over time.
Might? One day? When? When you have lost the child to the State because you
rode the boat all the way to TPR?
Post by 0:->
When the child is returned, and you are NOT being supervised any longer
by CPS, then Michael's wishes for you are appropriate.
Notice he did NOT advise caution? That's been his tune since he first
came to this group about two years ago or so.
A wish of luck requires caution? You're an idiot.
Post by 0:->
Why he keeps telling people to throw their children into the maw of CPS
is beyond me, unless he's actually part of the system here to provoke.
Post something that even remotely implies I said throw her children into the
maw of CPS.
Post by 0:->
One you are all clear of the system and your husband has full custody
of the child and the child is not longer in any way a ward of the
state, kick butt if you wish.
When it's too late possibly? What if they keep stringing her along because
they see she is an easy target and weak, and the child is TPR'd? Kinda
late to 'kick butt' then isn't it?
Post by 0:->
And I too hope you win a big settlement...though so far you haven't
mentioned anything that I see a reasonable cause to sue and expect to
win.
IOW. Your being violated by CPS and the pro-CPS ilk here see nothing wrong
with it.
Post by 0:->
Some folks here are proven successful tacticians in CPS cases and
repeatedly win against them.
Ask these 'winners' to PROVE IT.
Post by 0:->
Michael's not one of those, and neither is Greg, who will come for you
next, slinking in with unctuous encouragement to risk the child and be
a "heroic crusader" like himself, who has done nothing to get his girl
friends child back to her in nearly six years.
Don knows only empty words. Have them PROVE what they say.
Post by 0:->
Well, he's babbled here and tried to pick up folks such as yourself to
join his cause.
And Don has just advised you to play weak and don't rock the boat.
Post by 0:->
Best wishes to you. Feel free to rant at ME, not CPS, at this time.
She can rant at whom she desires.

IOW, don't dis CPS, Don's former employer.
Post by 0:->
Kane (DON Fisher, retired state child worker)
...

- - --
Michael
0:->
2006-12-28 21:38:37 UTC
Permalink
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On Saturday 23 December 2006 10:04 am
Post by 0:->
Dear frustratedstepmother be very careful about advice and 'best
wishes' from this creep. He'd have you going in BEFORE the child is
returned and creating conditions that could keep the child in the
system for two MORE years or so.
What advice was that which I gave?
Did I say you did? Where?
Post by 0:->
He and his cronies here, losers ALL, who have either never had child
in CPS custody, or have managed to keep the child away from their
parent for 6 years or so, will try to "harvest" you to try things as
their "lab rat" while risking the child.
WAIT!
Wait for WHAT?
Wait for you and your cronies to try and harvest this family. What else?
She isn't doing anything except venting and sending a letter to a newspaper.
Oh, you don't see that as a risk. Well, shucks, that settles that then.
R R R R
Post by 0:->
Work out what's going on with CPS.
You mean do whatever they want,
Looking for what's going on with CPS? That doing what they want? Getting
information is "doing what they want?"

Are you on something today?
don't resist or object even if what they
want done is completely WRONG?
Well, since I didn't say that, but simply "work out what's going on with
CPS," you had to make that up as though I said it. Notice?
Post by 0:->
I've seen them actually test the patience of people with such tactics
to see if you blow up, just as you are wanting to do (perfectly
natural) then use that blow up as evidence of your lack of suitableness
to parent the child.
By your very nature here,
Don's nature? What would that have been?
I bet
Yes, now there's a valid and credible commitment to a claim. R R R R R
you did a fine job of doing the same thing
to parents
I did no job with parents. I'm not Don Fisher. My understanding was that
he didn't work with parents for CPS either. He mentions child 'welfare.'
CPS workers don't call CPS "welfare." That's another department of human
services. We used to call it "welfare," now it has names like Adult and
Family Services.
you were involved with before you retired from child welfare
work for the State, Don Fisher.
I'm not Don Fisher, and YOU have not shown what connection he might have
had to CPS. He maintained a website, and apparently supported it's
cause, placing hard to place children that could have languished for
years in the system, bouncing from foster home to foster home.

That doesn't make him a CPS caseworker.
Post by 0:->
Be calm. (Scream at me, if you wish, but NOT at the worker or anyone
else that has any stake in the case...and don't even trust your
neighbors at this point).
IOW, don't rock the boat, something you deny meaning in your posts.
I didn't say "don't rock the boat."

What I'm suggesting is don't rock YOUR own boat.

Rock there's when it's time and use your smarts so they don't see the
wave coming and can take steps to block you.

I think you know this, Michael and I think you are shilling for CPS or
you wouldn't presume as you do about what I mean.
Don't even trust your neighbors, but trust a retired child welfare worker
for the State, and an anonymous internet poster?
Michael who?

You their neighbor, are you?
Post by 0:->
In your contacts with CPS, stay calm, professional, assertive but not
agressive. Show that you can handle yourself. Quietly keep good records
of everything that transpires. Simple, factual, not loaded with your
emotions, no speculation as to motives of others, just the facts.
IOW, don't rock the boat, play their game and act like you have no spine so
they can keep moving to TPR because it's obvious you don't want this child
or you would at least fight harder.
Michael, anyone with a brain can read out two statements above, and
compare.

Which do you think they would chose, if they were serious about getting
their child back, your Gregoresque bullshit, or mine to use one's head,
and not try take on the state head on?

Dan has managed to help families recover dozens and dozens of children
over the past 15 years, and did long before a case could escalate, as
you seem to be wanting it to do, by out maneuvering the state...with
little more than fact gather and a very careful way of presenting them
to destroy the state's case against the parent.

What do you mean by fight harder?

Do you think it easier to fight smart?

Hell, anyone can go in guns blazing. That's easy to do. And stupid. And
foolish.

You have a number of "parent's rights" organization around this country
that are founded by folks that tried that. And lost.

Dan's even gotten people guilty of some of the allegations off, Michael.

Or at the very least gotten their children returned to them.
Post by 0:->
You might one day need to produce them in court, and if you hack the
bad stuff out of your notes, the judge will know it and pitch your
evidence. Keep good notes, but "messy" so they are obviously genuine
and done on the spot over time.
Might?
And you claim to be a cop.....R R R R R R R ....not a single cop would
miss what I'm describing. Never had a judge require you to produce your
notes in court, Michael?
One day?
The come sequentially separated by hours, usually breaking into a day at
midnight, as I recall. Why would you, other than distract any readers,
ask such stupid questions, Michael?
When?
Hopefully, never. But what Dan, or anyone else that wins, must do is
have evidence. Evidence is often drawn from records kept.

Or do you believe otherwise?

In fact, everything must be written, even forensic evidence to appear in
in court. Even if you a gun, say, you must also provide writing about
it and the circumstances surrounding it. Part of that should come from
written records....like who bought it, when, loaned to, stolen on, that
sort of thing.
When you have lost the child to the State because you
rode the boat all the way to TPR?
Tell you what, Michael. YOU show us where head to head combat with the
state, NOT using facts and tactical delivery of them worked?

How many cases have been won on appeal? How many by suing the state?
Post by 0:->
When the child is returned, and you are NOT being supervised any longer
by CPS, then Michael's wishes for you are appropriate.
Notice he did NOT advise caution? That's been his tune since he first
came to this group about two years ago or so.
A wish of luck requires caution? You're an idiot.
Yes, I'd say in circumstances the person described, with her already
strongly expressed feelings of being upset and wanting to DO something
to CPS while the child is in custody...yep, I'd say a word of caution is
in order.

What is idiotic about giving, along with your happy faced "luck" wish, a
word of caution related to the content of her post?
Post by 0:->
Why he keeps telling people to throw their children into the maw of CPS
is beyond me, unless he's actually part of the system here to provoke.
Post something that even remotely implies I said throw her children into the
maw of CPS.
Did I say you said that?

The warning is about possibilities base on your past performance here,
like cite the constitution at the door and your troubles will be over,
advice.

Remember, or aren't you the same Michael that posted that kind of advice?

Do you think, given the tenor of her post, that she was not angry? Do
you think it a good idea to do what she was tempted to do, while angry?

If so, I would love if you would in fact NOT give anything like advice
here.
Post by 0:->
One you are all clear of the system and your husband has full custody
of the child and the child is not longer in any way a ward of the
state, kick butt if you wish.
When it's too late possibly?
Too late to sue?

To charge workers, etc with various malfeasance?

You think "kick butt" as in frontal attack works to get children out of
CPS custody?

Examples please.
What if they keep stringing her along because
they see she is an easy target and weak, and the child is TPR'd? Kinda
late to 'kick butt' then isn't it?
The reference was to what believe she wanted to do...and thoughtfully
restrained herself from doing.

And no, being and "easy target" is not what gets a TPR.

It's being an abuser.

What in this case makes you think there was a TPR in the offing?

AS I pointed out, her behavior, if it were hostile and attacking would
give CPS and the court reason to question her capacity to parent.

They aren't intimidated or swayed by such behavior, as Greg's Lisa can
tell you. Not even six years of it.

They have plenty of practice and skill at dealing with frontal all out
violent attacks.

What works is to convince a judge, or the workers even before a judge is
seen, that the state does not have the evidence...proof...of their
claims, case closed.
Post by 0:->
And I too hope you win a big settlement...though so far you haven't
mentioned anything that I see a reasonable cause to sue and expect to
win.
IOW. Your being violated by CPS
Let me see. The child won't be home for Christmas. But will later. This
is cause to sue? For what?

She could not provide the reason....and CPS isn't required to GIVE a
reason. Often they are prohibited from giving reasons. That's the nature
of "case" work. Reasons can be used by others, say the Ex wife, if she's
in the picture, or relatives that are contesting the placement of the
child with his father and step mother.

You don't know what is going on, Michael, nor do I, so I recommend the
safest course of action for the moment.

I've never said that full out attack isn't possible. And can win, but
doing it at the wrong time will destroy one's own case if they are not
careful.

I've even told people that have contacted me, that had extremely matured
cases....years old, with nothing left to do (because they tried to
battle it out with attacks very like Greg's), that they should seriously
consider a media and public demonstration. A direct appeal to the
Governor. Petitioning the state legislature.

All things I have actually helped people do long before I posted to this
newsgroup the first time.

It's a last resort ploy, and dangerous as hell to try in the early
stages of a case.

It's very rare that it works, and rarely still that it's needed.
and the pro-CPS ilk
You have continually failed to produce proof there is such an "ilk"
here, Michael, and between us, you and your crew, and the people you
attack here (parents all) you are more likely to be getting people to
lose their children to CPS and the state.

When you have a record like Dan's, or have even started on it with a few
families, you let me know. At each success I will publicly apologize to
you again.
here see nothing wrong
with it.
I personally see a great deal wrong with going off half-cocked, and
ensuring the state has MORE evidence to bury you if they decide to go
after you.
Post by 0:->
Some folks here are proven successful tacticians in CPS cases and
repeatedly win against them.
Ask these 'winners' to PROVE IT.
You can't "prove" anything to be factual in this medium, except by
reference to outside evidence.

You read, you judge, you decide for yourself what is credible or not.

The problem, of course, is that if YOU are pucked up in the head, you
will likely not understand what you are reading, and you'll tend to go
with your emotion of the moment, and put your head right in the Greg,
Michael, and assorted socks, hyena mouth.
Post by 0:->
Michael's not one of those, and neither is Greg, who will come for you
next, slinking in with unctuous encouragement to risk the child and be
a "heroic crusader" like himself, who has done nothing to get his girl
friends child back to her in nearly six years.
[Lie Redacted] knows only empty words. Have them PROVE what they say.
I've posted and reposted cited quotes from posts of you and you crew,
Michael.

It's there for them to read if they wish. I am not going to repost
encyclopedic narrative over and over again.

I said neither you nor Greg has won against CPS.

What proof do you have that you HAVE?

Let's put Greg's "pleading" up again, no?

Hell, even I, who get great laughs from it, am tired of seeing it here.

That piece of tripe is exactly the reason I consider him dangerous to
parents that come here. My good, what if in a weak moment, under stress
some family coming here in trouble with CPS were to take that pile of
crap seriously and try to duplicate and use it for themselves?

OOOOH, SHIT, Michael.

Show us in his piece of crap what YOU think is a good way to fight CPS.

And remember as you labor over it, that it's been six years in February
that Lisa has NOT had her child in her home. But she has had Greg
promising her a big financial payoff from the state of Iowa's citizens.
Post by 0:->
Well, he's babbled here and tried to pick up folks such as yourself to
join his cause.
And [Lie Redacted] has just advised you to play weak and don't rock the boat.
No, he didn't, nor did I.

I advised her to play smart and assertive. That's not weak.

I recommend she not rock HER boat, and if things work out badly, to be
prepared to rock CPS's.

You can't beat CPS if you telegraph your moves by being a loud violent
asshole. Ask Greg.
Post by 0:->
Best wishes to you. Feel free to rant at ME, not CPS, at this time.
She can rant at whom she desires.
Did I say she can't?

Suggestions aren't orders.
IOW, don't dis CPS, Don's former employer.
So, you think a case can be won by dissing CPS, do I have that correctly?
Post by 0:->
Kane (DON Fisher, retired state child worker)
If I were I'd be the damnedest resource you ever saw, and I'm not a bad
one now, having studied CPS and helped extended family and a few parents
since 1976.

And we don't know what Don actually did for the state, or what kind of
work with children he might have done.

And my work here has not produced, from any family that's come here for
help, any complaint.

Nor has Dan's work.

Your thrashing about with blatant lies, coupled with innuendo show how
impotent you actually are, Michael.

If you aren't a CPS agent, as I believe you to be, then you do one hell
of a fine impression of one.

You really want that lady to do a frontal attack on CPS, don't you, Michael?

Or you wouldn't have gone bonkers when you saw my suggestion she be
cautious at this time until she knows better what is going on.

What a simp. I hope they aren't paying you much.
....
- - --
Michael
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Dan Sullivan
2006-12-23 14:23:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by frustratedstepmother
I am the step mother of a child currently in the foster care system, he
has been in foster care for 2 1/2 years.
Why was he removed?

What was the original allegation?

What has been done by the family to demonstrate that the boy should be
returned?
Post by frustratedstepmother
There has been no so-called reuinification,
Then why is he to be returned on January 12th?
Post by frustratedstepmother
We are getting another attorney when this
is all over and am sueing them up one side and down the other.
Wait till you get the boy back... then decide what you want to do.

Do NOT even hint to CPS or anyone else that you're planning to sue.

Best, Dan
Dan Sullivan
2006-12-23 15:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

Ignore everything that's happened so far.

Focus on the reunification.

CPS is in the slow motion mode because it's the Holidays and people who
haven't tried to see their children in foster care are trying to see them
now and are clogging up the system. It happens every December... in the
Courts and CPS.

So deal with it just as you've described it. CPS dropped the ball. The
goal remains the same. Reunification. Tell CPS you know how busy they get
this time of year and you need them to finish what they were supposed to do.
Send the little boy home where he belongs.

Focus on the reunification.

Don't show anyone you're angry with them (they'll only drag it out further).

You and your husband should act like a lady and a gentleman who are calmly
waiting for their son to come home.

Let me know what you think.

Best, Dan
s***@gmail.com
2006-12-23 15:23:30 UTC
Permalink
That is our plan totally. we have been tactfully doing what we can in
regards to them. I am just so frustrated. I have a 19 year old in WI
that I don't get to see at Christmas. We just recently got married six
months ago and are trying in vain to have some kind of family
traditions established. it is so sad that our boy won't be here on
christmas morning to see what santa has left for him. We do get him at
9 am chrismas morning but that wasn't in the original plan, that all
changed because they dropped the ball. I am just extremely frustrated
with this whole situation. I am praying every few minutes today for
god to give me strength. it is hard enough at christmas for me as both
my parents are dead also. christmas was going to be so fun this year.
children are gifts from god and my husband does not deserve to be
jerked around like this. thanks for the advise. I feel better today
after posting here. I am glad I found this group. I will keep you
updated on the progress of our case. Have a merry christmas.
Post by Dan Sullivan
Hello,
Ignore everything that's happened so far.
Focus on the reunification.
CPS is in the slow motion mode because it's the Holidays and people who
haven't tried to see their children in foster care are trying to see them
now and are clogging up the system. It happens every December... in the
Courts and CPS.
So deal with it just as you've described it. CPS dropped the ball. The
goal remains the same. Reunification. Tell CPS you know how busy they get
this time of year and you need them to finish what they were supposed to do.
Send the little boy home where he belongs.
Focus on the reunification.
Don't show anyone you're angry with them (they'll only drag it out further).
You and your husband should act like a lady and a gentleman who are calmly
waiting for their son to come home.
Let me know what you think.
Best, Dan
Dan Sullivan
2006-12-23 15:33:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
I am praying every few minutes today for
god to give me strength.
Please, God, help me and my friends.

(over and over)
Post by s***@gmail.com
thanks for the advise. I feel better today
after posting here. I am glad I found this group.
My pleasure.
Post by s***@gmail.com
I will keep you
updated on the progress of our case. Have a merry christmas.
You, too.

Best, Dan
0:->
2006-12-23 15:35:18 UTC
Permalink
Super. You are on the right track. Stay focused and purposeful.

Save the battlefield tactics for later, should an occasion arise where
they are called for.

Celebrate the child even if he's not present in the home yet.

(And take lots of pics and if you can video, make a Christmas Card for
him out of it with you and your family that's present and speak to
him...even if it makes you cry...and do not erase that part, either. He
needs to know how very important he is to you all).

All the very best to you.

Kane
Post by s***@gmail.com
That is our plan totally. we have been tactfully doing what we can in
regards to them. I am just so frustrated. I have a 19 year old in WI
that I don't get to see at Christmas. We just recently got married six
months ago and are trying in vain to have some kind of family
traditions established. it is so sad that our boy won't be here on
christmas morning to see what santa has left for him. We do get him at
9 am chrismas morning but that wasn't in the original plan, that all
changed because they dropped the ball. I am just extremely frustrated
with this whole situation. I am praying every few minutes today for
god to give me strength. it is hard enough at christmas for me as both
my parents are dead also. christmas was going to be so fun this year.
children are gifts from god and my husband does not deserve to be
jerked around like this. thanks for the advise. I feel better today
after posting here. I am glad I found this group. I will keep you
updated on the progress of our case. Have a merry christmas.
Post by Dan Sullivan
Hello,
Ignore everything that's happened so far.
Focus on the reunification.
CPS is in the slow motion mode because it's the Holidays and people who
haven't tried to see their children in foster care are trying to see them
now and are clogging up the system. It happens every December... in the
Courts and CPS.
So deal with it just as you've described it. CPS dropped the ball. The
goal remains the same. Reunification. Tell CPS you know how busy they get
this time of year and you need them to finish what they were supposed to do.
Send the little boy home where he belongs.
Focus on the reunification.
Don't show anyone you're angry with them (they'll only drag it out further).
You and your husband should act like a lady and a gentleman who are calmly
waiting for their son to come home.
Let me know what you think.
Best, Dan
Greegor
2006-12-28 20:21:33 UTC
Permalink
I have a 19 year old in WI that I don't get to see at Christmas.
CPS has no authority over a 19 year old.

How old is the kid in custody?

Isn't this the case where the agency and court were putting the
child back, but threw you a curve at the last minute?
0:->
2006-12-28 22:02:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greegor
I have a 19 year old in WI that I don't get to see at Christmas.
CPS has no authority over a 19 year old.
Mmm...dummyboy, that's not the issue. What a shithead you are.

She posted a series of items sequentially that were loading her and her
family up with stress. That was simple ONE of them. Aborting the rest,
as you did, conceals the issues as being separate.

Why would you resort to such nonsense, Greg, unless you are on
assignment here to harvest these folks for CPS?

What next? You going to suggest she break the law, as you have suggested
to others?
Post by Greegor
How old is the kid in custody?
Not 19.

That child is in WI. She's in Washington state, or close enough to use a
Seattle paper in a reference.
Post by Greegor
Isn't this the case where the agency and court were putting the
child back, but threw you a curve at the last minute?
Why abort the attributions, Greg?

You immediately turn into a babbling idiot when you do that, and invite
others to make errors about the case. Thus INSURING THAT SOMEONE WILL
SCREW UP SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE AND LIKELY MAKE A MISTAKE THAT COULD
COST THIS FAMILY THEIR CHILD.

Do you do this because you are stupid, or just vicious, or a CPS agent?

Here's the post, figure those stupid questions out for yourself and stop
pestering and trying to harvest, via confusion, people that came here
for support.

"I found this group thru fightcps.com

I am beyond mad today. I just sent this to The Seattle PI (the Seattle
newspaper) I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THEM!!!!!

I am the step mother of a child currently in the foster care system, he
has been in foster care for 2 1/2 years. We are getting him back as
soon as Jan 12th. We were supposed to have him for the whole weekend
until Tuesday morning and my husband went to call CPS this afternoon to
find out where we were picking him up. Guess what? The program was
"changed" as the supervisor Fred Fistner put it, so he can be with his
"family" for Christmas. The foster mother is really not a nice person
to me. She has caused nothing but problems. There has been no so-called
reuinification, we have had one caseworker taken from this "high
profile case" (there words not mine) I am so mad right now I can hardly
believe this. I am tired of this corrupt system and someone needs to
expose their underhandedness. We are getting another attorney when this
is all over and am sueing them up one side and down the other."

And here's the later post in this thread, that you are actually
ABORTING...AS USUAL.

You did it to hide Dan's good advice, now didn't you, you CPS pissant?

Yet ANOTHER attack by you on a family engaged with fighting CPS. How
stupid do you think we are here that it can't be seen?

Here you go, stupid CPS agent boy.

Now go to the end of the post and accuse Dan of being a CPS suck again.
You lying piece of pig droppings.

From: ***@gmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services
Subject: Re: Merry frigging christmas. I HATE CPS
Date: 23 Dec 2006 07:23:30 -0800

That is our plan totally. we have been tactfully doing what we can in
regards to them. I am just so frustrated. I have a 19 year old in WI
that I don't get to see at Christmas. We just recently got married six
months ago and are trying in vain to have some kind of family
traditions established. it is so sad that our boy won't be here on
christmas morning to see what santa has left for him. We do get him at
9 am chrismas morning but that wasn't in the original plan, that all
changed because they dropped the ball. I am just extremely frustrated
with this whole situation. I am praying every few minutes today for
god to give me strength. it is hard enough at christmas for me as both
my parents are dead also. christmas was going to be so fun this year.
children are gifts from god and my husband does not deserve to be
jerked around like this. thanks for the advise. I feel better today
after posting here. I am glad I found this group. I will keep you
updated on the progress of our case. Have a merry christmas.
Post by Greegor
Hello,
Ignore everything that's happened so far.
Focus on the reunification.
CPS is in the slow motion mode because it's the Holidays and people who
haven't tried to see their children in foster care are trying to see them
now and are clogging up the system. It happens every December... in the
Courts and CPS.
So deal with it just as you've described it. CPS dropped the ball. The
goal remains the same. Reunification. Tell CPS you know how busy they get
this time of year and you need them to finish what they were
supposed to do.
Post by Greegor
Send the little boy home where he belongs.
Focus on the reunification.
Don't show anyone you're angry with them (they'll only drag it out further).
You and your husband should act like a lady and a gentleman who are calmly
waiting for their son to come home.
Let me know what you think.
Best, Dan
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